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	<title>Comments on: An Anti-Religion/Atheist Movement: Discussion</title>
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	<description>Behold, Bastard son! We are the evil ones.</description>
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		<title>By: LeaT</title>
		<link>http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/bluelinchpin/an-anti-religionatheist-movement/comment-page-1#comment-10069</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/?p=88#comment-10069</guid>
		<description>It is not about justification or insecurity in the lack of belief. It is about that religion is so intertwined in many modern societies and sitll dictates how they should be politically run that ultimately piss people off. What reason is there to actually look down upon homosexuals? None. They are no less difference than any other human being, and they should be given the same social rights as everybody else. Religious people would not agree with this, and they have no better reason than &quot;because god says so&quot;. It is not about satisifaction, people will not be satisfied until religion driven out of the political arena completely, or even disappeared off the face of earth. Common reasons is that religion is just that, dogmatic, and it tries to say things about things it shouldn&#039;t say anything about, and that the religious people in turn use these things as justifications for in turn saying and do things they shouldn&#039;t, which really has no rational basis as to why they are doing so. As long religion exists in its current forms, it will be dogmatic, and thus, people will make domatic claims and try to apply these claims on things they shouldn&#039;t. This is what is very troubling, that a lot of religious people in a similar manner aren&#039;t satisfied by keeping their religion private, and that when expressing an opinion of disagreement, they simply put their fingers into their ears and start saying &quot;lalala can&#039;t hear you&quot;. The issue ultimately then boils down into that non-religious feel that religious people step onto their toes. How would you feel to have mormons constantly knocking at your door, asking if you are interested in coverting because your life will be sooooooo much better if you do?  
  
As for the analogy between god and the Easter Bunny, you have to understand that ultimately both are figments of our imagination. You may say that god&#039;s existence is very real, but what ACTUAL EVIDENCE do you have to show us? None. You cannot prove that god exists. If you draw the card that you&#039;ve seen god perform miracles, I can as easily tackle it with that I&#039;ve seen the Easter Bunny lay eggs in my backyard. How can you prove me not true? You can&#039;t. Yet, at the same time, you may doubt that the Easter Bunny really was laying eggs in my backyard, no matter how genuinely I believe it (a child certainly would). Why do you question the existence of the Easter Bunny but not the existence of god? If you replace my story about the Easter Bunny with god and someone told you that, would you believe it? Not really, no matter how genuinely it may have been told. This is how many non-religious view god, and it is also the only logically sound way to view such an existence, for the reasons I laid out above. You cannot prove god&#039;s existence, and the lack of evidence simply will not convince anyone, just like I cannot convince you that the Easter Bunny exists just by telling the story about it laying eggs in my backyard. If I could however provide you with the egg it laid, and a photo of how it looked like, I am pretty sure you would reevaluate your stance about the existence of the Easter Bunny, even though you may still remain skeptical. Similarly, Christians fail to provide actual scientific evidence in support of god (and how can they know it was the miracles perform by THEIR god and not some other god, say, the Hindu one?), so non-religious will remain unconvinced. Why should I believe you when you can&#039;t believe me? 
  
And what exactly has religion done to humanity, more than providing with cultural artifacts? World peace? Improved the living standard in third world countries? Atheism isn&#039;t about criticizing religion and it has never been the driving goal. The problem is that you view atheism the same as if you would view religion; religion has a positive value, atheism doesn&#039;t. Atheism is the lack of something, it cannot thus provide with anything. If you are looking for people who were greatly inspired by their atheist views you won&#039;t find many. But similarily, how many people who claim to have done things in the name of religion actually did it because the religion motivated them? You will see that there are underlying ideas that actually control these things, and that religion is just a smoke screen. My teacher for example told me about his fieldwork on Java, where he studied the meaning of fasting. It turned out that while fasting may originally have been seen as a religious expression that imams and other religious leaders were very careful as expressing it so, underlying the idea of fasting was that of self-empowerment. That through fasting, that is, actually controlling your body, you could receive greater power of controlling other aspects of your life.   
  
Ultimately religion isn&#039;t about religion, religion is an excuse for humans to reach empowerment. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not about justification or insecurity in the lack of belief. It is about that religion is so intertwined in many modern societies and sitll dictates how they should be politically run that ultimately piss people off. What reason is there to actually look down upon homosexuals? None. They are no less difference than any other human being, and they should be given the same social rights as everybody else. Religious people would not agree with this, and they have no better reason than &quot;because god says so&quot;. It is not about satisifaction, people will not be satisfied until religion driven out of the political arena completely, or even disappeared off the face of earth. Common reasons is that religion is just that, dogmatic, and it tries to say things about things it shouldn&#39;t say anything about, and that the religious people in turn use these things as justifications for in turn saying and do things they shouldn&#39;t, which really has no rational basis as to why they are doing so. As long religion exists in its current forms, it will be dogmatic, and thus, people will make domatic claims and try to apply these claims on things they shouldn&#39;t. This is what is very troubling, that a lot of religious people in a similar manner aren&#39;t satisfied by keeping their religion private, and that when expressing an opinion of disagreement, they simply put their fingers into their ears and start saying &quot;lalala can&#39;t hear you&quot;. The issue ultimately then boils down into that non-religious feel that religious people step onto their toes. How would you feel to have mormons constantly knocking at your door, asking if you are interested in coverting because your life will be sooooooo much better if you do?  </p>
<p>As for the analogy between god and the Easter Bunny, you have to understand that ultimately both are figments of our imagination. You may say that god&#39;s existence is very real, but what ACTUAL EVIDENCE do you have to show us? None. You cannot prove that god exists. If you draw the card that you&#39;ve seen god perform miracles, I can as easily tackle it with that I&#39;ve seen the Easter Bunny lay eggs in my backyard. How can you prove me not true? You can&#39;t. Yet, at the same time, you may doubt that the Easter Bunny really was laying eggs in my backyard, no matter how genuinely I believe it (a child certainly would). Why do you question the existence of the Easter Bunny but not the existence of god? If you replace my story about the Easter Bunny with god and someone told you that, would you believe it? Not really, no matter how genuinely it may have been told. This is how many non-religious view god, and it is also the only logically sound way to view such an existence, for the reasons I laid out above. You cannot prove god&#39;s existence, and the lack of evidence simply will not convince anyone, just like I cannot convince you that the Easter Bunny exists just by telling the story about it laying eggs in my backyard. If I could however provide you with the egg it laid, and a photo of how it looked like, I am pretty sure you would reevaluate your stance about the existence of the Easter Bunny, even though you may still remain skeptical. Similarly, Christians fail to provide actual scientific evidence in support of god (and how can they know it was the miracles perform by THEIR god and not some other god, say, the Hindu one?), so non-religious will remain unconvinced. Why should I believe you when you can&#39;t believe me? </p>
<p>And what exactly has religion done to humanity, more than providing with cultural artifacts? World peace? Improved the living standard in third world countries? Atheism isn&#39;t about criticizing religion and it has never been the driving goal. The problem is that you view atheism the same as if you would view religion; religion has a positive value, atheism doesn&#39;t. Atheism is the lack of something, it cannot thus provide with anything. If you are looking for people who were greatly inspired by their atheist views you won&#39;t find many. But similarily, how many people who claim to have done things in the name of religion actually did it because the religion motivated them? You will see that there are underlying ideas that actually control these things, and that religion is just a smoke screen. My teacher for example told me about his fieldwork on Java, where he studied the meaning of fasting. It turned out that while fasting may originally have been seen as a religious expression that imams and other religious leaders were very careful as expressing it so, underlying the idea of fasting was that of self-empowerment. That through fasting, that is, actually controlling your body, you could receive greater power of controlling other aspects of your life.   </p>
<p>Ultimately religion isn&#39;t about religion, religion is an excuse for humans to reach empowerment.</p>
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		<title>By: Waldheri</title>
		<link>http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/bluelinchpin/an-anti-religionatheist-movement/comment-page-1#comment-10011</link>
		<dc:creator>Waldheri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/?p=88#comment-10011</guid>
		<description>I hadn&#039;t expected you to make such a tiresomely often refuted argument, but perhaps you simply haven&#039;t been confronted by it&#039;s rejection before. Yes, millions have been slaughtered by atheists. So what? Millions have also been slaughtered by theists. The common analogy is: both Hitler and Stalin had mustaches. Should we therefore conclude that those with mustaches have a disposition to fascism?  
 
The answer, of course, is &lt;b&gt;no&lt;/b&gt;. &lt;i&gt;Correlation is not causation&lt;/i&gt;, that is to say, the perceived correlation of atheism and fascism can not be equated with the perceived causation of fascism by atheism. And atheism can&#039;t formally be a causation of anything, as it is a single belief that provides no ethics - so atheism does not entail an ethical obligation to kill people if you are in power. (However, the fact that atheism provides no framework of ethical behaviour does not mean it excludes it. I have morals, and I am an atheist. There is no contradiction.) 
 
I certainly agree that forcing a particular worldview on everyone is fascistic, and I do not propose such action in any way. In fact, I would oppose it vehemently. This is a relatively old article and I can&#039;t really be arsed to read it again to see what it proposes, but in my view, religion does not have to be removed from society. I would merely ask that decisions are based on reason and evidence, not divine revelation and faith. I would prefer religion to be something personal, not instituted and political. In other words: You can believe whatever you want, but if you want to postulate rules for the rest of society based on those beliefs, you had better make a reasoned and evidenced case for their veracity.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#039;t expected you to make such a tiresomely often refuted argument, but perhaps you simply haven&#039;t been confronted by it&#039;s rejection before. Yes, millions have been slaughtered by atheists. So what? Millions have also been slaughtered by theists. The common analogy is: both Hitler and Stalin had mustaches. Should we therefore conclude that those with mustaches have a disposition to fascism?  </p>
<p>The answer, of course, is <b>no</b>. <i>Correlation is not causation</i>, that is to say, the perceived correlation of atheism and fascism can not be equated with the perceived causation of fascism by atheism. And atheism can&#039;t formally be a causation of anything, as it is a single belief that provides no ethics &#8211; so atheism does not entail an ethical obligation to kill people if you are in power. (However, the fact that atheism provides no framework of ethical behaviour does not mean it excludes it. I have morals, and I am an atheist. There is no contradiction.) </p>
<p>I certainly agree that forcing a particular worldview on everyone is fascistic, and I do not propose such action in any way. In fact, I would oppose it vehemently. This is a relatively old article and I can&#039;t really be arsed to read it again to see what it proposes, but in my view, religion does not have to be removed from society. I would merely ask that decisions are based on reason and evidence, not divine revelation and faith. I would prefer religion to be something personal, not instituted and political. In other words: You can believe whatever you want, but if you want to postulate rules for the rest of society based on those beliefs, you had better make a reasoned and evidenced case for their veracity.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/bluelinchpin/an-anti-religionatheist-movement/comment-page-1#comment-9974</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/?p=88#comment-9974</guid>
		<description>It never ceases to amaze me how some atheists are simply not satisfied to just NOT believe. 99% of the articles &amp; books published by atheists appear as though they themselves are not secure in their own professed lack of belief. Its as if you must justify your position. Furthermore, I&#039;ve heard many atheists lump the idea of God in with the likes of Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny. Yet you don&#039;t see hundreds of websites dedicated to the sole purpose of discrediting them. Thank God no atrocities have ever been committed according to the will of Saint Nic, the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy; otherwise you people would be advocating for the social expulsion of rabbits, fat bearded white men, and snaggle tooth kids.

If you don&#039;t believe in God, then don&#039;t. Either way, stop trying to make yourself feel better about it by attempting to marginalize or silence those who DO believe in God. 

Its also important to mention that millions upon millions have been slaughtered at the hands of atheists and/or those who never claimed any religious affiliation, ie, Stalin, Mao, Polpot,   Hussein, Hitler (I know you all like to quote Mein Kaumpf in an attempt to establish Hitler as a Christian, but history has shown that Hitlers was driven by whatever theory, practice, or belief best suited his psychotic purpose. Hitler would&#039;ve expressed a belief in flying monkeys and the city of Oz had he felt he could use it to his advantage..by the way, there are also a number of quotes by Hitler denouncing religion and giving great creedence to Darwinian evolution. 

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I am fully aware of the atrocities carried out in Gods name throughout history...however, I am also aware of the good that&#039;s been done in Gods name, which far outweighs the bad.....what has Atheism EVER done for the world besides sit on the bench  and subjectively critisize religion simply because of a pre-determined bias to materialism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It never ceases to amaze me how some atheists are simply not satisfied to just NOT believe. 99% of the articles &amp; books published by atheists appear as though they themselves are not secure in their own professed lack of belief. Its as if you must justify your position. Furthermore, I&#8217;ve heard many atheists lump the idea of God in with the likes of Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny. Yet you don&#8217;t see hundreds of websites dedicated to the sole purpose of discrediting them. Thank God no atrocities have ever been committed according to the will of Saint Nic, the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy; otherwise you people would be advocating for the social expulsion of rabbits, fat bearded white men, and snaggle tooth kids.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t believe in God, then don&#8217;t. Either way, stop trying to make yourself feel better about it by attempting to marginalize or silence those who DO believe in God. </p>
<p>Its also important to mention that millions upon millions have been slaughtered at the hands of atheists and/or those who never claimed any religious affiliation, ie, Stalin, Mao, Polpot,   Hussein, Hitler (I know you all like to quote Mein Kaumpf in an attempt to establish Hitler as a Christian, but history has shown that Hitlers was driven by whatever theory, practice, or belief best suited his psychotic purpose. Hitler would&#8217;ve expressed a belief in flying monkeys and the city of Oz had he felt he could use it to his advantage..by the way, there are also a number of quotes by Hitler denouncing religion and giving great creedence to Darwinian evolution. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I am fully aware of the atrocities carried out in Gods name throughout history&#8230;however, I am also aware of the good that&#8217;s been done in Gods name, which far outweighs the bad&#8230;..what has Atheism EVER done for the world besides sit on the bench  and subjectively critisize religion simply because of a pre-determined bias to materialism?</p>
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		<title>By: Chad S</title>
		<link>http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/bluelinchpin/an-anti-religionatheist-movement/comment-page-1#comment-9941</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/?p=88#comment-9941</guid>
		<description>Need I remind you that millions upon millions have been slaughtered at the hands of professed atheists and/or proponents of Darwinism...not to mention those who made no claim to religious affiliation...ie, Stalin, Mao, Polpot, Hitler. And let&#039;s not forget that your demanding the removal of religion from society while forcing your own world view of materialism is the very epitome of fascism. Not only are you in fact, a bastard (your title by the way), but you&#039;re an ignorant one as well!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Need I remind you that millions upon millions have been slaughtered at the hands of professed atheists and/or proponents of Darwinism&#8230;not to mention those who made no claim to religious affiliation&#8230;ie, Stalin, Mao, Polpot, Hitler. And let&#8217;s not forget that your demanding the removal of religion from society while forcing your own world view of materialism is the very epitome of fascism. Not only are you in fact, a bastard (your title by the way), but you&#8217;re an ignorant one as well!</p>
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		<title>By: Chance</title>
		<link>http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/bluelinchpin/an-anti-religionatheist-movement/comment-page-1#comment-2358</link>
		<dc:creator>Chance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 00:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antichristian-phenomenon.com/?p=88#comment-2358</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m no Monotheist nor am I an Atheist but today is the Brazilian Carnival, a largely Roman Catholic celebration in observance of Ash Wednesday. Here in the US our religious Bigots would never consider such an &quot;immoral&quot; festival to be a religious holiday but in Brazil there is nothing immoral about it. 
 
So my question is this: Does the culture reflect the religion or does religion reflect the culture.  
 
I do not consider Atheism to be some magic solution to the world&#8217;s problems. People can behave irrationally with or without religion. I have known many atheists in my life who have been capable of social injustice. One guy I knew in high school who by no means believed in a thing is now serving a life sentence for triple homicide. Ironically I would not be surprised if he is doing some level of soul searching while he spends the rest of his life in prison. 
 
What lead him to murder was his abusive past and in our hyper masculine culture which promotes violence day in and day out it is easier to link this particular case of human suffering to promoted male violence than to religion in it of it&#8217;s self. 
 
There are far more complex issues at hand to explain the many problems in the world and saying so many are distinctly created out of religious belief seems a little misguided. 
My point is this: every time some person shouts out racist, sexist and homophobic religious bigotry (the kinds of things the lead to injustice) there is more going on than just religion. 
If Atheists are to make their voices heard it is my opinion they should do it in a manner that does not bash anyone else&#8217;s set of beliefs, otherwise you are nothing more than a bigot. 
 
Though we can identify that there are many problems associated with reading an antiquated book as a chronological of fact, the fact is that statistically speaking, people who are religious are generally happier and more satisfied with their life purpose. So you cannot ignore that little fact. Your job is simply to show that the atheist life can be a fulfilling one too and set an example for the rest of the world to see. Also if I were to ever lose everything as of now the largest organizations in the country which help the needy, are Christian organizations, so they are likely who I would turn to, not atheists. So, atheists need to reach out and help the needy just as the Christians do otherwise you wont gain a whole lot of followers in the end because you aren&#8217;t really proving how you are bettering the world. 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m no Monotheist nor am I an Atheist but today is the Brazilian Carnival, a largely Roman Catholic celebration in observance of Ash Wednesday. Here in the US our religious Bigots would never consider such an &quot;immoral&quot; festival to be a religious holiday but in Brazil there is nothing immoral about it. </p>
<p>So my question is this: Does the culture reflect the religion or does religion reflect the culture.  </p>
<p>I do not consider Atheism to be some magic solution to the world&rsquo;s problems. People can behave irrationally with or without religion. I have known many atheists in my life who have been capable of social injustice. One guy I knew in high school who by no means believed in a thing is now serving a life sentence for triple homicide. Ironically I would not be surprised if he is doing some level of soul searching while he spends the rest of his life in prison. </p>
<p>What lead him to murder was his abusive past and in our hyper masculine culture which promotes violence day in and day out it is easier to link this particular case of human suffering to promoted male violence than to religion in it of it&rsquo;s self. </p>
<p>There are far more complex issues at hand to explain the many problems in the world and saying so many are distinctly created out of religious belief seems a little misguided.<br />
My point is this: every time some person shouts out racist, sexist and homophobic religious bigotry (the kinds of things the lead to injustice) there is more going on than just religion.<br />
If Atheists are to make their voices heard it is my opinion they should do it in a manner that does not bash anyone else&rsquo;s set of beliefs, otherwise you are nothing more than a bigot. </p>
<p>Though we can identify that there are many problems associated with reading an antiquated book as a chronological of fact, the fact is that statistically speaking, people who are religious are generally happier and more satisfied with their life purpose. So you cannot ignore that little fact. Your job is simply to show that the atheist life can be a fulfilling one too and set an example for the rest of the world to see. Also if I were to ever lose everything as of now the largest organizations in the country which help the needy, are Christian organizations, so they are likely who I would turn to, not atheists. So, atheists need to reach out and help the needy just as the Christians do otherwise you wont gain a whole lot of followers in the end because you aren&rsquo;t really proving how you are bettering the world.</p>
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