The Antichristian Phenomenon

Ah yes, you have idiots everywhere. And [i]because[/i] atheism is such a one-issue philosophical standpoint, it doesn’t really mean much when racist idiots also happen to be atheists. It is their mere ignorance that drives them to trying to link their views to atheism, while it has nothing to do with it – and we simply have to deal with it the best we can (which I think we are quite capable of). You’ll find lots of strange ideologies in people, and then learn they are also atheist. It shows once again that the argument “atheism is evil because the atheist Stalin killed millions” is the same as “mustaches are evil because Stalin, who had a mustache, killed millions”. It’s therefore quite possible to come across these racist atheists, as well as people who do not believe in gods, but do believe in fairies. The pro-life atheist is no different (and there are indeed humanist/secular arguments against abortion)

On a sidenote, I want to point out that “pro-choice” and “pro-life” are bogus terms. They tend to suggest that a “pro-lifer” is “anti-choice” or that a “pro-choicer” is “anti-life”. A same kind of polarisation that creates black-and-white views life the one discussed in Anath’s “The Ignorance of Evil” article. I (and I presume anyone else) is in favor of life ánd choice. It’s only a matter of degree of both that determines your view on the issue.

There are of course serious cause effects for a woman to do abort, especially when the fetus has started to develop but most of them are due to hormonal changes. On the other hand, to be pregnant is not such a pleasant thing either. A friend of mine recently got a baby and she had such pains in several months she couldn’t work and were forced to stay home. Or give an example of those which just throw up 9 months. Then we have other factors such as those who have extreme menstruational aches and thus requires medification.

However, this article was not about the right to abortion or pro-life although people who use a black and white thinking tend to simplify things tenfolds. I spoke to a girl similar to my age (back then) who were forced to keep her child because of her Christian parents. That IS very rare in Sweden. Then that she also wanted it herself because she said she had a hard time becoming pregnant… Seeing she was like 17? I didn’t think it was a very wise choice but at least her parents only partially forced her although I bet her parents’ will had a great deal on the matter.

Not trying to stray too off topic, I saw that thread, it was hilarious. They couldn’t fucking argue over anything. They have no scientific evidence whatsoever when they are trying to back up their claims that the whites are better than other races in terms of intelligence and survivability. Then the fact that almost none of them could argument seriously… if they could argue at all, it was all laughable. They claim whites to be the better race but they have such a low intelligence they cannot even have a normal argumentation making valid statements and backing up their claims at the SAME TIME claim they are on the top of the society. Hey, according to them I am on the lowest scale in terms of intelligence being of an Asian origin bunched along with Jews. Racists just fail so fucking badly it is imaginable.

Anyway to sum this all up, I am pretty sure people would be able to peacefully live together if everything wasn’t so godamn fucking white and black to them. I even read a lecture one of my past philosophy teachers had written where he claimed that we need such a polarisation (he is a Catholic btw). Seeing how people who only live in black and white terms are like, I seriously do not agree on that issue.

Strappado, rather expertly, pointed out the history of the situation. But, I will take it a step further philosophically and point out that Black Metal or general Antichristian means you can’t be racists. There’s no point, even remotely, in having Black Metal be a racial distinction. This is purely based on religious distinction. The major thing Jesus changed was he opened it up for the gentiles (this means non-Jews for the uneducated). Thus, if Black Metal wants to seriously combat Christianity, it needs to NOT be pro-White and say the white race is superior. This makes no sense since I know quite a few Christians that are also white! This creates a natural logic breakdown when you try to reconcile. You simply can’t be racist and follow a true Black Metal ideaology. The purpose of Black Metal is to combat Christianity and any other overbearing religion that adhere’s to a glorified concept of general ignorance. This is NOT a racial issue. Most of the White is superior arguments have been proven wrong by a lot of scientists. It’s like this brain diagram I saw someone show me one time, trying to tell me that the White brain was physically larger than a Black persons brain. It never occured to them that the diagram might show two different people with different sized heads. This “proof” was also disproved by countless doctors. It seems like the White supremacists do anything BUT help our cause. They make us look like idiots and they should be combated as vigorously as the Christians. We, frankly, do not need them in our ranks and we should NOT want to share their ideaology because it is not based on facts! Rather it is based on pseudo facts and they have just as many “faith” based concepts as the Christians. They are simply no better, and often times far worse!

From my point of view you should be proud of who you are, people don’t really get that choice. Am I proud to be white? You bet I am! Will I only go out with white woman, yes, I will and this is because I am not attracted to others. Do I believe in propagating the white species? Yes I do, I don’t want my kind to disappear. BUT, if I was of asiatic descent shouldn’t I also want these things? Your race is part of you, you can’t change it, so be proud of it no matter where you are.

Because if you don’t like it you’re stuck with it and you may as well commit suicide because it will be a bane to your everyday life. You can’t escape the image you see in the mirror. If you don’t like yourself for who you are then I can’t see someone really getting too far in life and being productive with the monkey on their back. However, you SHOULD exercise restraint in this pride. Extremes are what become a danger. This is why Nazism doesn’t work in the grand scheme. It’s too extreme, it’s unrealistic. Be proud of who YOU are and where you come from, but also let others be proud of the same thing. You are no better, nor worse than the others, so it’s not like you are superior, you just are. I say you may as well like yourself while your at it, if you don’t like yourself what a sorry existence you will lead in this world, then how would anyone achieve anything?

I guess this is where we would slightly differ on opinion. I see that lack of pride as a danger to our races existence. I would like to think that the White, Arab, Indian, Asiatic, or Black races would still be here form any future generations. They should take care of themselves and should be conscious of who they are. This kind of self enjoyment can be healthy, but I think a neutral approach is too broad. I see your point that it doesn’t imply you’re ashamed of it, but is indifference a good quality to have when it comes to one’s person? I’m thinking that it would be better for people to like themselves in totality, not just race, not just knowledge, but a full living being. There’s a lot of people out there that don’t like themselves, or aren’t proud of themselves, this is just as much a problem as people being TOO proud. There has to be some sort of a balance and I just don’t think general indifference would be a solution.

I do agree that knowledge should be the focal point. Intelligence SHOULD transcend the racial concept. I think this is the first step to undoing the racist problems, but I also don’t think that with gaining more intelligence one should be indifferent with their persona. That’s just where I’m coming from at least.

Minion4Hire… I think you need to reevaluate what the hell I was talking about. I’m not a racist, if you read what I wrote that’s pretty obvious. I KNOW the science behind the skin pigmentation. However, my point is that it doesn’t happen overnight. I thought that was just obvious, because the last time I checked if someone from India moves to Norway they don’t magically become white, nor do they suddenly bear white children. I could be wrong though? Maybe you have some Weekly World News articles to show me to support this alternate reality.

Stop being a retard and read what I’m pointing out. You’re talking about this as if because I enjoy the fact I was born white means I dislike people of other colors? Your point at this juncture means fuckall. I also enjoy living in the northern part of the country and wouldn’t enjoy living at the equator. Does this also make me a racist? Or perhaps I am a “climacist” and think people living in other regions of the world can’t develop culture.

You’ve clearly missed my point that you should be proud of who you are, no matter who you are. If I was black, I would be proud to be black. Saying you’re happy to be who you are is strange? Since when? You’re proud that you were born in North America, how is this concept different from skin color? You don’t get to choose where you are born. You’re proud of the skills you’ve honed? How can you say such a thing? Oh wait… that’s because that makes up your person as a whole being. Guess what… you’re skin is part of that being, no more than your height, your eye color. I also like people with blue or grey eyes, does that make me screwed up? I like brunette girls too. Clearly I’m off my nut.

Where do I say that culture is a by-product of skin color? The preservation principal applies to all things, not just skin color. How about you being able to read with comprehension before you make wild accusations about people? Lets look at it this way, are Polish people white? Yes. Do they have a different culture from the French? Slightly, but yes. Should both communities seek to preserver their unique culture. Yes. Lets try this again, this time with China and Japan. Are both races Asian? Yes. Should both cultures seek to preserve their unique traits? Yes. Should these societies be proud of themselves and their accomplishments? Why not… what kind of horror is this doing if you preserve your people? It looks like you read “Mein Kampf” where Hitler critcized culture and tried to apply those words to me, yet not even remotely realizing I wasn’t talking about those things. If you don’t get it, don’t comment.

At this point, I have to confess I’m curious despite my language use. Why wouldn’t you want to preserve such things as culture and race. They’re unique in this world’s development. It’s what makes living here kind of special. So why would you point the finger at me to be racist because I like being white and accuse me of being a racist. Why wouldn’t you want to preserve your culture and race? The black girl that sits next to me at work is proud that she is black. I just asked her this. So apparently I’m not the only person on the planet who doesn’t get bent out of shape when I look at my skin color every day.

Db0 more or less covered what I’d like to reply to, but I’ll try to elaborate.

However, my point is that it doesn’t happen overnight. I thought that was just obvious, because the last time I checked if someone from India moves to Norway they don’t magically become white

No, but they’re acclimatized to a different part of the world. And depending on where they move that can be a bad thing. Obviously someone with fair skin near the equator will be dealing with sunburns and higher risk of skin cancer, while someone with darker skin nearer the poles will contend with vitamin D deficiencies, especially during the winter. But the color of a person’s skin has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING else, and as Db0 noted only serves to divide people when some people see it as a matter of pride.

People proud of their skin color tend to be more proud of their traditions/culture than a specific pigment, but most do end up being quite racist in one form or another, whether they be chinese, african-american, or ukrainian. The question is WHY are they proud of their traditions, and what benefit is there in trying to “save” them? As I noted originally, cultural differences – like skin pigmentation – are regional, and always will be. But regions aren’t based on political boundaries. China and Japan have just as many internal cultural differences than they do between each other, and if certain customs are popular within one region they will propagate and survive into future generations. Desiring one tradition over another due to personal preference is fine, but trying to “save” cultural facets will always be a losing battle because culture changes without end.

Both before and after WWII the west heavily influenced the culture of Japan, and the people there latched onto certain ideals while discarding others, and regardless of whether older members of that society preferred an older or simpler way of doing things that didn’t prevent the culture from changing. That change didn’t prevent those people from practicing what they preferred, but they can’t stop their culture from changing, because it will never be “complete”. France has tried to regulate the French language very strictly, leading people either to follow either a very strained and outdated vernacular or have to rely on what is considered slang in order to have a conversation involving modern objects and concepts. What they’re missing is that people will say what they want and speak in whichever way pleases them most, and if enough people follow suit in becomes the norm. In other words, CULTURE MEANS NOTHING!!!!!! At best it’s a snapshot in time, indicating how certain people did certain things during a certain time, and all you should be concerned with is doing what you enjoy; culture will sort itself out.

I’m short on time, so I’ll cover one other point for the moment – I did not say I was proud to live in North America, I said I was happy that I do. I’m sure a lot of people living in Darfur would prefer to be somewhere else right now (I’m sure that ideally they would want to the wars to stop, but since that doesn’t appear likely…) and I am glad, indeed lucky, to have been born here than there. However that is only due to current conditions. Who knows, the US government could completely tank its economy and drive North Americans to be deemed impoverished citizens in 20 or 30 years time. But for right now, I’m happy to live here.

Db0, I feel I should explain the purpose of my response to Minion4hire. I felt he was putting words in my mouth and making assumptions about my point on the matter. I also felt he was making inherent contradictions within his on rebuttle to me, in an unkind manner. So I retorted in kind. His being happy about being born in North America doesn’t coexist with his argument that being happy you are white makes no sense. Both elements are beyond the persons control to decide. So if you are happy about what country you are born in, why not also be happy about what race you are as well? They have the same uncontrollable constraints.

As for the culture argument you two are presenting I think you completely misunderstand my meaning. By preservation, I mean NOT forgetting. As in we should never forget the ancient Egyptians. Do I think people should go out and practice living the same way as ancient egyptians, having pharoah’s building huge pyramids for tombs? Not really, seems kind of unrealistic actually. But does that mean we should forget it? Certainly not, that would be a horrible thing to do. Likewise, should we forget the culture that Nazism essentially created? Absolutely not, if we forget it we run the risk of it happening again! Forgetting a culture or knowledge that was found anywhere for anything is the worst thing I can think of happening in our world. Such was the tragedy that befell the Library of Alexandria. However, luckily some was preserved, like Euclid’s “Thirteen Elements” for example. I hope this clarifies what I mean by “preservation”. I mean, not forgetting it, not forgetting where you came from and what your forefathers learned. If we forget the past then how can we possibly progress into a future? Forgetting the past is like forgetting the building blocks of our society and all the knowledge we’ve accumulated. I logically cannot advocate this way of thinking. I think this is somewhat in line with Minion4Hires point. As another example, English is quickly becoming the trade language of the world and I think this commonality for communication is a great advancement for our species (this would be the case if it was Russian, the language itself means nothing, just that we can talk to each other). It means everyone can talk to everyone and this will only speed up the exchange of ideas. However, this doesn’t mean I think the French language should be forgotten. I don’t think people in France should stop learning how to speak it! I don’t think the availability to the globe in learning how to speak it should be taken away. That’s what I mean by preservation. The knowledge of it should not be restricted. If someone wants to learn French but lives in Taiwan, let them.

Yes Db0, nationalists use race preservation to stop Globalization, but I am not a nationalist. In order to really get at the heart of the point of globalization you need to preserve the difference. If everything is the same then people become complacent. I can’t think of any better motivator to think differently than have something staring you in the face. It forces people to acknowledge change. It’s no secret that people are naturally adverse to change, but if you have different people from different parts of the world working together despite their differences, I think that makes for a stronger humanity than one that is all the same. I don’t think the only purpose of skin color has been to separate humans from each other, aside from the better living regionally. I think people’s way of thinking about skin color needs to change and advance to acceptance so then we can truly progress as a peoples. The racist nationals are surely not helping the situation any, because they are not for unified progress, they are for singular advancement, everyone else be damned. This will get you nowhere globally and a unified species will leave them behind quite quickly, but should we forget them? Certainly not.

I hope that actually answers both of your comments. I’m not saying cultures shouldn’t influence each other either Minion4hire, just to clarify that point. I realize I didn’t develop my answers to Db0 specifically, because I thought if he read my statements with the definitions I provided above he would see them in a different light and maybe have different questions. If this is the case, I’d be happy to bring the discussion further! See, now this is what I would call a great intellectual conversation with you two.

Minion4Hire… I’m not going to really respond to what you’ve said until you answer one question. Did you read my entry where I presented definitions on the words we’re talking about? If you read my definitions I bring up, you should see the answer to your question. You’re also acting like I don’t get your point of view on why you think people shouldn’t be proud of things that are beyond their control, I get it, I’m not retarded. I thought the fact I got your point of view was painfully clear during my discussion with Db0. And it’s not a ridiculous statement just because you think it to be so, as I have tried to point out at length why it is a strength. Maybe, when you are having a discussion with someone who has thought out their point. You should stop telling them what they say is “ridiculous” when you can’t submit a counter argument in a thought out fashion. All your doing is coming across like an asshole and a dumbass because you’re submitting that I’m an idiot and seek to reinforce that fact by saying “well I disagree.” You can disagree with my point of view all you want, it doesn’t mean I’m unintelligent, since you spend most of your entry trying to argue the same points I do half the time.

Yet I submit the theory that people are frequently proud of things that are a result of things that are beyond their control. For example, take the wealthy kid who goes to an ivy league college simply because his family has the ability to pay for it. The fact he managed to get in on his credentials in this case is ultimately irrelevant because his ability to go depended entirely on his family’s ability to pay for the college. If they couldn’t pay for it and he got in, it would be a moot point. So he is proud of the school he attends yet it solely hinders on the financial backing of his parents accomplishments. Secondly, if you look at studies Tall people tend to make a higher salary than shorter people. These people might be proud of their salary or their pay increase and erroneously posit that their hard work is what got them that pay check, when all that happened was they just happen to be an inch taller than the competition. The data that correlates this concept is striking and too much to be mere coincidence.

As for historical preservation, I completely disagree with you and I think you’re view on the subject will hinder humanity far more by the blatant disregard for history. If you don’t see the point in preserving historical records of humanity then be ignorant of who you are and where you come from. That’s fine, that’s your choice, but you shouldn’t force that opinion on me or others who want to preserve such things. At that juncture I don’t see why you’re even participating in this argument about historical preservation of our species, since it apparently matters so little to you, unless you’re really trying to sway me to your method of thinking it doesn’t really matter. Which makes no sense to me.

I believe I definitively outlined why I think race preservation is a strength, so I see no point in answering that question a second time, I honestly can’t make it any simpler in explanation. But, no offense, what you wrote doesn’t feel like you read what I have said. You’re arguing a lot of the same things I’ve already said. I never said humanity should stop dropping or adding languages. In nowhere do I make that statement. And, frankly, I have no idea what you’re section on Christianity has anything to do with this discussion on race and culture preservation. Yet you seem to be against the Christian’s bringing our society into a regression of knowledge, but in the end it doesn’t matter to you? Again, I ask what point you’re trying to make with this argument because it seems like you have no real need to discuss this topic since you don’t care about it? That’s how I’m perceiving your words at least.

Yeah, it kind of felt we were getting off the mark with the definitions. And I should point out that I want this to be a civil conversation, you’re pushing me to really analyze and think about my opinion on this topic. Db0, so far you’re the only one pushing me to try and think outside the box even more on the topic without dumbing down my point and saying that I’m making ridiculous statements. Not to mention this entire argument is so far based on an opinion that I’ve drawn from specific conclusions I’ve made from life experiences. I will cherish the fact that geneaologically my family is white and I will continue with that code of conduct throughout my life. I have opined that it is a good thing to feel this way. The fact is, it’s my opinion, if you’re looking for hard empirical scientific evidence to back it up, you can’t. That’s an opinion, opinion’s aren’t factual. You can draw an opinion based on factual evidence, then hold an opinionated conclusion based on that evidence. Doesn’t make your conclusion a dead fact though. They are drawn from general conclusions based on life experiences, otherwise it wouldn’t be an opinion… it would be a fact. No one has an opinion that there are no more tyrannosauros rex’s on the planet, that’s a fact, not an opinion.

And yes Db0, that’s exactly what I mean by pride and proud in terms of race and nationality. I’m not ashamed of who I am, nor do I think other people shoudl be ashamed of such things, and on a historical basis I’m quite pleased with what my forefathers have accomplished in life giving me the world I have to live in today. Granted it’s nothing utopian, but I feel fortunate that my family has cared enough to make the best possible surrounding for me to grow in. On a national level I like what my country has tried to do in the past, granted there are a great many things I disagree with what goes on now, but I don’t think we should forget the deeds that are done (good or bad). I also follow the proverb “those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.” I really take that to heart and that’s why we should not forget the past.

I think I’m using the word “preserve” too much like an archivist. Sorry… I read a lot of books by archaelogists and read about archival documents a lot. I do mean preserve as in not forgotten. I think a lot of times, at least in the past, as society has rapidly progressed things have been overlooked and forgotten. I think my point for needing all the connected dots has really been solidified during the “evolution vs. creationism” argument in America. This has now developed into “evolution vs. intelligent design” and in this argument what they’re saying is that science doesn’t have ALL the answers. So because we think species ‘a’ evolved into species ‘c’ and have no evidence (yet) of species ‘b’, then evolution must not be true. Therefore it is proof of God at work. This is a foolish argument. So, if we preserve the knowledge we have now and build on it, if anyone ever wanted to look back and see how something evolved in a society they can find out. I think this historical non-forgetting will save a lot of people trouble in the future. Again, that’s my opinion, and that is why I have it.

Onto Globalization. Ok, the reason I think this is a strength is because I’m directly involved with globalization on a corporate level. My company heavily outsources to India. I’ve had to train people FROM India when they came to this country. An opportunity most Indians do not get. We had to have a bunch of cultural training classes about what it is like to deal with them on a business level. For our business unit we had to learn how to strategize around dealing with their culture. Without getting into a lot of detail, we basically had to watch how we say things, work on personal relationships a lot more… etc. That’s what is important to them, so as my culture interracted with theirs we took in and learned about them and likewise exchanged knowledge. Their skin color and difference in general made me aware of that every day. You may not think about it consciously all the time, but subconciously it is ALWAYS there. Neurologically speaking there is no escape from that split second judgment concept. Maybe someday race WILL be unimportant (I will concede this point, it won’t happen over night), but for the here and now, we need to get beyond the skin color and work together regardless. We need to evolve beyond the concept of skin color WITH it still being visible, at least that’s what I think. So right now, I think it’s important and it will only make humanity stronger and more understanding of each other. It’s a similar concept that we have in arguing with the Christians. If they would stop being so damned closed minded about the Bible maybe we’d be able to have a civil conversation on the topic without people getting offended. However, this typically isn’t the case, at least that I have found (especially on the internet!). So if we could all embrace and work together no matter what culture or race you are from, this will make us stronger and finally progressing beyond prejudiced concepts. Though, I must admit, that part of me does want to preserve the racial differences for the long term, maybe this is a biological response of some kind? I don’t know, it is just there and I feel it a duty, at the moment, to uphold that. Though this is my own personal belief, it is not something everyone has to practice, naturally. If my white friend wants to marry someone from China, they are more than welcome. It’s just not my thing.