The Antichristian Phenomenon
Just a short story that happened to me the other day when walking to the local store to buy some food. Two girls run up to me in approximately my age (maybe a bit younger), at first I thought they were intending to ask for a road direction or another form of help; then I see one of them putting her hand into her bag and tries to find something. Second thought is, “she’s intending to sell something”, then I see her reaching out a small brown paper and looks very ashamed, with the added line: “if you want it”, as if she is trying to excuse herself from something.
At this point I realized that she is probably a member of the local Jehovah’s Witnesses church, they are sometimes rather active giving out flyers and knocking on people’s doors. She then walks away with her friend who stayed silent during the whole conversation and I look at the flyer.
Of course it’s some Watch Tower shit, let me quote (the best part is at the bottom):
“Welcome
Every week we study the Bible
Lectures about the Bible – studium in the Watch Tower
Discover how actual the Bible is and what practical worth it has in our time“
I feel like almost going there just so I can debunk everyone of their arguments. Unfortunately, I am bad quoting verses off my head, and it may make me seem less credible. I could always say something of what I’ve learnt through my anthropology studies, but all in all I think it’s rather pointless and I will probably speak to deaf ears.
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April 19th, 2009 at 4:57 pm - Edit
The shame of these girls' is understandable. Biblical morality, cosmology and mythology is something to be very ashamed of if you believe it to be the responsibility of a so-called all-powerful being.
April 19th, 2009 at 4:58 pm - Edit
These girls' shame is understandable. Biblical morality, cosmology and mythology is something to be very ashamed of if you believe it to be the responsibility of a so-called all-powerful being.
April 19th, 2009 at 7:32 pm - Edit
I think it should indeed be if you actively promote it to other people but most of all I wanted to show an attitude that may be common in European countries in regard to giving out religious flyers: that they are not as aggressive about to point fingers if you refuse to accept their beliefs such as all the burning in hellfire yadda yadda. Most likely she and her friend were sent out by their parents to do it because they may be more accepted; whether they were ashamed of the whole act as such or whether it was simply because it was uncool or a combination of both I don't know. Undeniably they were aware of what they were doing was mostly considered wrong in most peoples' eyes, so question is why they did it at all.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:01 pm - Edit
Eh, they wouldn't have listened to you anyway
April 20th, 2009 at 5:21 pm - Edit
Unfortunately I think so too
June 10th, 2009 at 9:41 pm - Edit
These girls are just the next generation of infected, delusional idiots, happily waltzing through life with the vacuous promise of salvation rolling around in their vacuous heads, just a couple more victims in a long line of oppressive tyranny and mental mind-fucking. just sayin.
June 11th, 2009 at 4:45 pm - Edit
I disagree, because I don't think they were such strong believers. I think they did it because their parents told them to (and probably would've punished them someway if they didn't). That was my impression of them.
EDIT
To clarify, I don't know where you live or where you come from, but in Sweden where I live, vey few people show off with their faith or are generally strong believers. A lot of people may believe in god, but they leave it there. In Sweden, it is almost something to be ashamed of, even if it just means mere association. Imagine to do such an uncool thing as a teenager. It is not uncommon of the Jehovah's WItnesses to force their children to do the parents' bidding.
June 15th, 2009 at 8:47 pm - Edit
I wish I lived in Sweden. I live in the Bible Belt, 80% Evangelical Christians, and they honestly believe they are the minority here! I am surprised they don't put crosses on their dog collars. I use to be one of them: a teacher in the church, converting people, believing in hell/heaven, the sin of homosexuality until I began doing my own research starting with the ancient gods that mirror Jesus and his stories. It took many, many years to come out and come to to the place I am at today.
Lea, I think you are right, the girls probably did it because they were told too. When you are taught growing up the world is flat you will believe it is flat until you go and find out for yourself. People do not understand, most Christians have a sincere heart to do what is right, even though they are self centered and egotistic about it, they do not see how intrusive they are because they are filled up with so much brain washing dogma-crap.
The Romans did an excellent job teaching the people to go out and convert. Great way to conquer the world with out the expense of an army!
June 16th, 2009 at 10:43 am - Edit
As I understood it, Jehovah's Witnesses parents are very strong with their parenting as well. It happens every now and then that a Jehovah's Witnesses kiddo enters the school and they are not allowed to do this and that because of the PARENTS' faith. It is very cult-like after all, and it wouldn't surprise me that many a Jehovah's Witnesses child might even be afraid of their parents and disobeying them. I know a person who went in a senior class to me whose parents were of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and she didn't like they didn't celebrate such small things as Christmas when every other kid did (and of course got presents). For her, it was a great unjustice, she wanted to be like everyone else and she didn't understand. She barely spoke of her parents as well, I think she was ashamed of her parents and their faith. Here, Jehovah's Witnesses are generally considered nutcases… While I respect them as human beings, I cannot respect their faith, and people go like, "OMG, Jehovah's Witnesses are coming to town!" like it would be the end of the world sort of deal etc, so they are not very liked.
'
November 17th, 2009 at 7:38 pm - Edit
There are various strands of beliefs included under the broad "Christian" wing. Jehovah Witnesses do not share the the same doctrine as christians (or catholics)… so I think that you should really do more research before you begin critisizing faiths that are non-representative of Christianity.
November 17th, 2009 at 8:20 pm - Edit
Yes, this is about Jehova's Witnesses. Yes, JWs are not representative of the entire Christian spectrum. However, they are still Christian. Therefore, the title is not wrong. The text makes it very clearly this isn't generalized for all Christians, it mentions JWs and the Watch Tower explicitly. So what are you whining about?
November 20th, 2009 at 4:06 am - Edit
actually the title is "ashamed christians" if your going to critize jehova's witness those brain washed heretics they should title it that.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:28 am - Edit
"Christians" in this case does not refer to all Christians great and small, but to a group of Christians, or even individuals. I guess you're just going to have to find a corner to cry in about this.
November 20th, 2009 at 7:13 am - Edit
I've seen Christians of other denominations displaying similar behavior.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:31 pm - Edit
Leaht & Walderi,
My dad (an atheist) has worked for a business owned by JW’s for 25+ years now. Leaht, you mentioned their approach to parenting. I can tell you that these people are borderline abusive to their kids. In one instance; at the age of 17 the owners son decided that he wanted to go in a different spritual direction & leave the JW’s. When the church “elders” found out about it they threatened to excommunicate the family because the dad couldn’t control his house. In response, the mother & father disowned their son without thinking twice about it. Afterwhich all was ok with the church.
The JW’s take a very literal approach to their Bible. They don’t celebrate Christmas because, according to them, the Bible doesn’t state when Christ was born (although it does). They don’t celebrate Easter because of the pagan practices that come with it (this I agree with). They don’t celebrate birthdays because, in their minds, it is a form of idolatry. They don’t vote at all because there is no such thing as man made authority. Personally I think its a travesty to deny a child the joys of Christmas & Birthdays. At the same time, its equally wrong for parents to force any kind of religion on their kids. I was raised by an atheist father and a non practicing catholic mother. Needless to say, I was not brainwashed into the beliefs that I maintain today as an adult. I think its also important to mention that religion isn’t the only thing that causes kids to feel ashamed.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:54 pm - Edit
Chad, what you are describing is not uncommon for groups that are cult-like in behavior. I agree with you that it is wrong of any parent to impose their beliefs upon their children even though they themselves think of how great it is; because they cannot know how the children will react to this. As a sort of pagan, I wouldn't want a Christian parent to enforce his or her beliefs on me, because that doesn't feel right. Neither will I enforce my views of my would-be chiildren. I also think a child has the right to celebrate his or her own birthday. If the family doesn't want to celebrate birthdays in general, fine, but at least the child should have a choice in that decision. Children to JW often become ostracized in school as well because of their parents' beliefs, and that's when I don't think it's ok anymore. A person is free to believe whatever he or she wants, but it should not cause others pain, and even less so, their own children.
I also agree with you that a child can feel ashamed over other things in life, but this was mostly in regards to the Christian branch that regard JW.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:57 pm - Edit
If you are going to argue that JW are not Christian at least please give a dictionary description of the meaning of Christian next time. Just because you believe such and such denomination is not a part of the main denomination does not necessarily make it true. JW are considered a part of the religious group called Christian whether you like it or not. Come with good arguments instead of accusations why you believe JW are not Christian and I will hear you out and change the title accordingly; but I have a feeling you aren't very interested in doing this.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm - Edit
LeahT-
The JW’s were in founded upon SOME Christian teachings. Like many denominations, they’ve taken bits and pieces from the KJV and re-written their own Bible. A very, VERY small portion of their beliefs are not that far fetched, but most are way out in left field. Yes, they call themselves a Christian denomination but if their teachings are not in line with those of Christ then they’re not Christians. The JW take the same approach to Jesus that the Muslims do…that he was nothing more than a flesh & blood prophet. Neither religion however believe in the crucifixion or the resurrection.
Also, the book of Revelation mentions the 144,000 which are Gods elect. These are who the JW’s claim to be. Unfortunately they failed to continue reading Revelations; which says exactly who the 144,000 are. They are the 12,000 members of each of the 12 tribes of Israel…Judah, Dan, Benjamin, Levi, Naphtali etc…. I could go on but I think you see the point.
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:50 pm - Edit
As far as parents teaching their kids to believe what they believe, I think parents have the right and duty to train their kids. Parents have the responsibility to teach their kids right from wrong, to help them in school, and to be supportive as they live out life. Some parents will teach their children religious principles and even take them to church, but this is not evil or a form of child abuse. Granted some parents will seek to force a child to believe a certain way. This, however, does not work and it is in direct contradiction to the meaning of faith itself. I am a Christian, but I do not believe that I can force anyone else to believe what I believe.
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:51 pm - Edit
Part 2: I do not have children, but if I ever do I understand that I will not be able to force my children to believe the way I do. That being said, I will take them to church and teach them about what the Bible says, but there comes a point when I know that I have no more control. They will have to choose for themselves whether or not they believe. Parents who try to force their kids to accept Jesus are doing what the Crusaders did when they forced people to convert. Faith is not faith unless it is one’s own personal decision. Those who profess to be Christians need to demonstrate the love of Jesus, even when people do not accept what they believe. This includes parents who have children who do not accept their faith.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:40 pm - Edit
It's like saying that people who call themselves Hare Krishna are not Hindus. Point is that they still follow a major part of the Christian doctrine, they do not for example worship Mohammed or Allah. There are plenty of Christian groups who by your definition are not considered Chirstian; I disagree, there is a difference talking about Christianity the religion (as in being a follower of Christ) and religions who are considered part of the subgroup Chrisitanity. Jehovah's Witnesses never claimed to be Christian, they follow Jehovah. They do however belong to Christianity as a subbranch, because their religion emerged from Christianity, not for example Islam.
December 8th, 2009 at 9:47 pm - Edit
What if I consider it right to hate homosexuals or black people? What if I consider it wrong for these people to exist, and that their existence morally depraves society? Do I sitll have the right to instill these values into my children? What if I forced my children to watch a local mob torturting a black man to death (happened during the KKK era), and then later profess of how proud I am over them when they do not turn away? What if I refuse to teach that there are other religions with other values and ideas other than those found in the Bible? What if I cherrypick parts of the Bible that fit into my worldview, such as women should not speak in church? A child is very easy to impress and a child will and copy the parents' behavior, and might continue displaying such behavior even after the parents' death. I have no issues teaching a child about religion, but it should be done openly and it should not deny other forms of doctrines or any other kind of interpretations than those that you yourself ascribe to. If the words of the Bible were so clear-cut, how come Christians still today from various denominations disagree over its meanings…?
December 8th, 2009 at 9:47 pm - Edit
What if I consider it right to hate homosexuals or black people? What if I consider it wrong for these people to exist, and that their existence morally depraves society? Do I sitll have the right to instill these values into my children? What if I forced my children to watch a local mob torturting a black man to death (happened during the KKK era), and then later profess of how proud I am over them when they do not turn away? What if I refuse to teach that there are other religions with other values and ideas other than those found in the Bible? What if I cherrypick parts of the Bible that fit into my worldview, such as women should not speak in church? A child is very easy to impress and a child will and copy the parents' behavior, and might continue displaying such behavior even after the parents' death. I have no issues teaching a child about religion, but it should be done openly and it should not deny other forms of doctrines or any other kind of interpretations than those that you yourself ascribe to. If the words of the Bible were so clear-cut, how come Christians still today from various denominations disagree over its meanings…?
December 15th, 2009 at 1:56 am - Edit
Leaht – I agree just about everything you’ve said above…except for this…
“If the words of the Bible were so clear-cut, how come Christians still today from various denominations disagree over its meanings…?”
This same line of reasoning can be applied to a number of things outside of religion.
Many Americans have differing views when it comes to interpreting the Constitution. Does that mean its a failed document? Does that mean the interpretation of one should hinder or limit the credibility of another? Of course not. That’s just how one chooses to view it.
So far as parenting goes. How a parent chooses to raise a child is their decision, and, like all decisions, it will either produce rewards or it will produce consequences. The world will always have racists, rednecks, and homophobes. None of which requires religion in order to exist.
I’m a proud father of an awesome 8 year old boy. Have I taught my son to pray? Yes, and so far its worked out well. On the same token I would never teach him to hate anyone based on their skin color, religious beliefs (or lack thereof), or sexual orientation..(hell if anything I’ve tried to teach him to be a lesbian LOL). Religion does play a role in how I raise him but its not the only factor. No one ever said that moral, or immoral values must be guided by religious beliefs.
Regardless of our personal beliefs, our job as parents is to love our children unconditionally. All I want for my son is for him to be responsible, well rounded, and most of all..happy… I will love him & be proud of him regardless of the path he chooses.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:47 pm - Edit
As a non-American I do find the Constitution a big failure, so you didn't really counter anything with that argument. Also, it's LeaT, no h, or even better, just stick with Lea like everyone else is doing. Also, the part about political documents is to word them as clearly as possible so NO ONE can interpret them differently. This is not the sake with a religious document. If people disagree over a political document and its meanings, it should and must be rewritten so the meaning will become more clear.
Well, I sorely disagree over your choice of learning your son to pray, because I believe that your son should have his own right to decide whether he wants to believe in god or not and whether he believes in praying or not, which you didn't give him. Also, my point wasn't at all to point out that raising a child according to religious doctirne is immoral, I will disagree with it, but I said that you can very well do so without instilling beliefs that are outright hurtful to society.
I also disagree with your part about that any parent can raise their child how they want. We talk about human beings with lives here, do you want to be responsible for your son to become a criminal because of you being a bad parent? I think it's one of those things which is easy to say when you're not the one with a bad childhood.