The Antichristian Phenomenon

I preserved this thread on my personal blog, but I figure the visitors here would be more interested, since I don’t even attempt to generate traffic there.  I’ve also modified it into a single post.  Now that the fireworks have died down and the Creationist ran away officially, I would say the debate is officially over, and quite post-worthy.

A silly “All-Access Customer” was harassing Cleric on his Expelled review (which he also posted on the ACP), and putting forth statements he couldn’t answer, so I was called in for damage control.  If you want to read the original source, my first post is on page 27, All-Access’s comments start somewhere around 20, his complete idiocy is exposed on page 26, but I have condensed the posts here and edited basically nothing. (I may have fixed a few typos and names?)  I left out posts that weren’t by myself, Cleric, or All-Access as they did not contribute to the debate.  If you want to read them, the link is above…

All-Access got confused and a bit angry at my blatant exposure of his logical fallacies, then I smacked him around with some science and he disappeared for over a month, claiming he was “sleep deprived” and couldn’t think about it yet.  When he came back, he complained again that he was sleep deprived and continued to ignore my post.  It seems that most Creationists/ID proponents can not seem to argue outside those tired boxes already set up for them.

Warning: some of the responses are MASSIVE, and there is not much logic to be found.  Overall, it is a pretty typical debate with a supporter of ID.  Also, if you see that I have made a mistake or provided mis-information anywhere, please let me know so I do not repeat it next time.

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Just within the past few days I have been approached through comments by a Christian by the name of Brian who has a few bones to pick with my budding “Debunking Christianity” series. The comment replies became too lengthy and detailed to maintain a good comment-debate, and he expressed interest in using email as our primary form of communication. My problem with this was that it would take a topic that I would like to remain public and pulls it into the private domain, so I asked his permission if I could post our email exchange in article format for outside opinions on both sides.

This first part includes our original long comment debate, the second part will be our first email exchange. I do not know how long this debate will be or how frequent as we are both busy people, but I will be sure to make an article for each exchange so anyone who is interested can follow and contribute.

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As of late, I have been watching lots of documentaries and videos on the internet concerning religion. I have found that some atheistic groups have defined their own ten commandments. Some googling will result in many different variations on this moral code. I think christian claim that you need religion to have a sense of morality has sparked the postulation of these “atheist’s ten commandments”. Of course, this is a misconception, but to define your own Ten Moral Biggies is the wrong approach to sort this mess out.

Let’s first sidetrack a little and have a look at what the christians are on about. They often refer to the bible as the book of absolute truth and thus also absolute moral code. And exactly with the “absolute”, they’re quite wrong. As much as they like to think so, the bible is not very consistent about its ideas of morality. For moral guidance, most christians will only refer to the ten commandments. Does it not strike you as odd that the only morals in a book written over hundreds of years, would only have ten lines concerning morality? Can these ten commandments be applied to every situation and supply an answer as to what is the right thing to do? No. The ten commandments are only a fraction of what can be found in the bible. What about these guidelines?

The book of Deuteronomy is very clear about dealing with people who served or wish to serve another deity.

Deuteronomy 12:2-3: Ye shall surely destroy all the places wherein the nations that ye shall dispossess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.
Deuteronomy 13:9: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

And how does the bible prescribe us to deal with one who blasphemes against the name of the christian god?

Leviticus 24:14: Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

There are numerous examples of the death penalty in the bible, as well as selling your daugther and the shame of long hair on a man. You can’t be cherry picking what moral rules to adhere by and which not, if you insist on your holy book being one of absolute truth.

What I am trying to say is that morality can not be absolute. “The moral thing to do” depends on many factors like culture, situation and even your own personality. It is very hard to define a certain moral rule that is universally applicable, because you need not have much imagination to come up with a situation in which the moral thing not to act according to the moral rule. And if you do succeed, why would you insist that everyone should take it into comtemplation? Of course, there are some concepts (like not allowing the taking of another life) that are quite universal, but this does not mean they are absolute truth! Good and bad are mere concepts by human minds. These concepts are used in legislation to keep an eye on the public and prevent chaos. This is not a matter of divine righteousness, but a matter of governing people.

So why are there the ten commandments, and why are there exactly ten? Do you not think that people are perfectly able to decide for themselves what is wrong and what is right? Would you not allow even this freedom of thought? Why are there not nine commandments, two, or fifty-seven? It is silly to think there is a limited number of moral rules. Again, I urge you to always make up your own mind. There is absolutely no need to write down a moral code. You have this nifty little thing called a brain that is always at the ready for any query. In every situation that calls for a moral decision, balance all things on the scales of reason and make your decision. It’s a silly idea that you would need to contemplate a writing and see what rules apply in this precise case.

Alright, let’s sum this all up. Morality is not absolute, not christians’, nor atheists’. It is a matter for you to consider every single time it passes you on your way. Remember, morality is part of philosophy, wherein lie no answers, but only a few options and a huge stage for you to play your own act.

To get things started on the ACP, here is something I wrote a while back on the nature of debating atheism based on the actions of atheists.

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